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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
67
   |
Posted - 2012.03.11 18:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is reaching the level of a crime wave. The gankers are no longer even using passive targeters to scan you. I'm getting visibly scanned every time I bring any form of hauler into Jita. This is an annoying constant assault. Its also putting hard limit on how much isk can be shipped that is, I think, lower than what CCP intended. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
67
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 19:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Funny, the only time I have been yellow boxed is when I'm autopiloting (which I only do with an empty or worthless cargo hold, mind you).
I get yellow boxed every time I go into/out of Jita. That includs atk. The only time I'm not yellow boxed is when:
a. I'm coming in, in a blockcade runner and am able to cloak on gate, or
b. Undocking straight to an insta undock (normally don't bother if I'm empty or have a really low value cargo).
Even then, unless you're in a blockade runner you're unlikely to clear perimeter without being scanned. Getting scanned happens regularly with both a transport ship and an Ity V (really, do you really think I'm moving anything of value in an Ity V).
Getting constantly scanned is annoying. Not as annoying as getting ganked, but having people constantly take the first step to attack you gets old fast.
Honestly I'm guessing no freighter is clearing Jita without a scan (though those might be getting passive scanned so as not to spook you into logging before the gank).
A 10% chance of a scan adds color to the game. A 100% chance of a scan is a problem. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
67
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 19:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
[quote=Stella SGP]Well, referring to an earlier thread about suicide freighters, sadly the general consensus on the forums seem to be either haul less then 700mil in your freighter or bring a gang of 12 remote reppers to counter the 12 Tornados sitting on gate.
A 700m cap on moving stuff with a freighter makes any good with a value greater than say 1000 isk/m3 difficult to ship (assuming a freighter hold of 700,000 m/3. Trit is going for 4.5 isk/unit right now or 450 isk/m3.
Let me try to get this through your thick skull. Any mod with more than a 2.2 compression factor, just on trit alone, can no longer be efficiently hauled. That's almost every item in the game (except cap boosters).
You kill the ability to ship things then wonder why the game has run away inflation. If you can't ship effectively you go from large industrialists spooling up large jobs to little guys moving in a stack of maybe 100 mods at a time. This is not a good thing for an effective low price point. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 00:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:Jas Dor wrote:If you can't ship effectively you go from large industrialists spooling up large jobs to little guys moving in a stack of maybe 100 mods at a time. This is not a good thing for an effective low price point. But it's great for small industrialists and regional market hubs. You're making some very good arguments in favor of suicide ganking.
The problem is that there are two different time frames.
1. Industrial job time which is an AFK activity.
2. Hauling time, which is an (semi-ATK) activity.
Somebody is going to need to haul minerals to the trade hub for the small industrialists. Since this is an atk activity they are going to want to make a certain, inflation adjusted, amount per trip.
Small industrialists want a percentage return for tying their isk in an industry job.
The problem is that industrialists set the inflation base for the game. Mineral prices will rise to reflect the premium on haulage. Because mineral prices rise, the price of goods rises to meet the profit expectations of the producers. Because prices of goods have risen the hauler will ask more for the next shipment of goods. Rinse and repeat for an inflationary spiral. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 00:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I was attacked once 4 years ago in my hauler. I do 4 or 5 trips into and out of jita every day and have been scanned twice in 5 months.
I don't think this is as big an issue as the OP thinks.
Turn automatic lockback on. You aren't seeing the scans in the chaos of Jita.
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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 04:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
beor oranes wrote:Though not in the last little while, I have over the years moved billions (up to abour 10bil) at a time in and out of Jita. The only time I got ganked was when I left some T2 BPC's in a shuttle by accident and AP'd to Jita and was sat on a gate for about 20 minutes. Suicide ganking is easily avoidable if you take simple and common sense precautions, if you don't you deserve to lose your ship and cargo.
Yeah and back in the day I loaded a Large Faction Tower into an Ity IV, put some tank on the thing, and made it to my destination. This is not back in the day. Simply fitting a tank and not AFKing is no longer enough.
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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 04:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Here's a quick list of things that can no longer be moved by the freighterload
Antimatter Charge M = 3920 isk/m3 (using lowest Forge price).
EMP M = 3920 ism/m3 (give or take a couple of isk).
Hammerhead I = 2889 isk/m3
The gank limit is currently around 1000isk m/3 (For 700mil in drop from 700K of cargohold).
When a freighter can not move a full cargohold of T1 ammo or T1 drones something has gone horribly wrong. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 20:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Tippia wrote:tiberiusric wrote:the problem is for the victim is its too easy for gankers. Far too easy... Close, but not quite. The problem is that the victim makes it too easy for the gankers. This. I was kind of wondering how these guys got four ganks (that I know of) off the same undock. You'd think these Tengu pilots would notice a stranger sitting on the undock, or check local every so often to see if there was someone they didn't recognize, or even see if there was chatter in local, or hell, just noticed that there was a ******* Tengu wreck on the undock. Some people... are obviously botting.
Depends. If the wrecks were salvaged there were no markers. The undock at many of the empire missioning hubs is busy! If there are 140 people in system it takes a big gang on the undock to rise beyond the level of normal traffic. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 20:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
The last I checked, minerals need to be at manufacturing facilities for industrialists to use them, not trade hubs. The only reason to buy minerals in a trade hub is that you can buy in huge quantities, which small industrialists don't need to do. You actually pay a premium for minerals at trade hubs, as I'm sure you're aware.
If hauling minerals to Jita becomes less profitable due to ganking, why wouldn't small scale producers actually see a decrease in mineral prices on their local markets?
If I were a small scale highsec producer, I'd consider sponsoring suicide gankers, and possibly getting together with other small scale producers to sponsor widespread ganking along all the main trade routes. In fact, that sounds pretty fun!
Tell me have you ever tried to get an order for Zyd or Mega filled in Dodixie? It isn't a fun experience.
Low end minerals move through local hubs at descent volume. High ends, forget about it. Lets not even go into the prices of T2 components at secondary hubs. The bottom line is that for many mats the only viable market is Jita. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 22:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Borun Tal wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:Wow, I ran into a 12 Tornado gang 3 jumps out from Jita last night. Wasn't expecting that at all. I had 200 million worth of datacores on me, but I was flying a cloaked Crane, and got by them easily.
Was a surprise though, geeze. I always fly cloaked (in my Crane) when I'm carrying more than the value of a replacement ship. Aw, c'mon, that's just not fair!! People should just be able to max out their mining skillz and not have to worry about any other skillz in this game!!! EveO needz some more nerfing!! No shooting at anyone without written prior consent!! Consentual peeveepee only, demmit!!! (ps: let's see how many idjuts think I'm serious)
Fair has nothing to do with it. You blow up a ship, their are consequences. There are consequences for you, consequences for the victim and consequences for the market. Unfortunately the unseen hand of economics has decided that it is going to beat you senseless until you stop blowing up so many haulers/barges. Inflation will stop, once it makes suicide ganking non-viable. Until it does an increasing risk premium will get built into prices.
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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Not true, you can put up buy-orders somewhere out of Jita with a higher price then those in Jita. Then people will ship it too you.
You do know markets are based on supply and demand. If you demand stuff at a certain station and the price is right, they suppliers will move it too your station and not Jita.
Mainly people are just buying and selling in Jita because they are lazy and know Jita is market heaven. But if you want rare mineral, just set up buy orders above Jita prices on the border with low-sec/0.0 and people will supply you, null-sec people already take time off to ship it to empire. They will be happy if it means only having to go 1 jump into high-sec instead of a long trip to Jita as it means they can be back in 0.0 doing fun stuff sooner
I've handled high end moon mineral sales for a 0.0 corp before. Your small buy order isn't enough to change the course of a dyspo freighter over. Besides those minerals are simply landing (one jump in), they are being JFed to a quite low sec entry system and scouted through a back route to Jita. Once they arrive they're getting dumped on a Jita buy order, the profit booked, and any amounts due the alliance paid.
I suppose some guys running a mining alt might drop Zyd on your buy orders. Really though nobody is rerouting a high end hauler for your small buy orders. Those things go like a bat out of hell for Jita.
Also buying significantly over market does not help the inflation problem in EvE. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:
For pvp to happen in eve, you need ships exploding, simple as.
Thanks for your stupid opinion, but the fact is your opinion is stupid. PvP is anything where you are competing against another player. Highsec is filled with market PvP. It's very high stakes. The OP is asking for shelter from the consequences of that.
Not what I'm saying at all. Actually I'm saying two things.
1) The level of ship scanning going on is absolutely ridiculous. This has gone from color to crime wave.
2) Eventually the invisible hand is going to beat the eve market senseless and leave it bleeding in a ditch unless something is done to bring down transaction costs.
To this I should add point 3)
If transaction costs do not decrease hyperinflation will continue until PvP in its multiple forms becomes unsupportable. This is the market imparting the RL lesson that lawlessness is a bad thing on your skull. Only by having a special area with hardcoded protections is PvP able to exist. If there were not systemically safe areas the risk premium for goods would render PvP economically unfeasible. (And the failure of EvE along with almost every other unrestricted PvP game out there would become somebodies economics dissertation). By having a safe area with reasonably easy access from unsafe areas, PvP using items built at the safe area price becomes economically possible.
So no I don't hate PvP. I just think most PvPers would cut their own economics throats for a killmail, even if it resulted in null/WH becoming the wasteland the lowsec is.
BTW your alliances (for the Goon poster) holds spaces because other alliances did not understand risk premiums and put price controls on their markets. |
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